And the Jimeze vs Gohan / Frieza point, too. Goku stomps! Gohan begging Goku to take him seriously as a fighter has precedence! I was reading that it's based off how strong his body is, and if he can train his body to be stronger he can achieve a higher level. @man_of_miracles: actually you sound salty that BotG movie was retcon and current anime is a mess of inconsistencies ;). And then we have him seemingly on par with base Gohan fighting the U6 namekians. Add to that the Kaioken and Goku should be many times stronger than an untrained Gohan who not even a single day ago couldn't use his Mystic-form. Tien, literally did nothing besides take someone down with him. I'm loving how you're literally just listing what opponents Gohan had to fight without even thinking of any context of power level within each fight or the fact he was clearly helped. Mystic Gohan is as strong as SSG if not near equals with SSB Goku. @omriamar: Krilin also fought with SSB Goku, so what is your point? Against Gohan, who is roughly on SSB level you say, after he saw his full power he decided to use SSJ2 and gave Gohan a hard time (kicked his ass for the most part). If Gohan is relative to start of TOP SSB Goku and Goku in base is roughly 40x or more stronger it would be a close fight, but Goku's IT and kaioken would be an issue. Damn near. Gohan hasn't done anything in a real dire situation to suggest he's anywhere near the level to fight the way Goku fought Beerus. Composite, ergo current SSG Goku as of 125,then Gohan might lose. I rest my case though. I think Roshi got the biggest jump out of anyone LOL. Gohan was ALREADY at max full power before Goku went SS2 in the beginning of round 2, and Goku got the first hit IMMEDIATELY on top of handling him the entire fight. But Buu Saga Gohan is superior to SSJ2 Goku and match SSB goku using his full power for a short time. You can keep playing dumb until you're face turns blue, but at the end of the day, I already laid out the consistent facts and they prove that Goku was always the one to sandbag during a match to either test himself, give false hope, take easy and / or steadily train his opponents. In addition, most of the feats people try to contribute to showing SSJG/B's power usually only happens when Beerus is involved... which brings me to the conclusion those feats don't really belong to Goku/Vegeta(as we don't see those kind of feats such as their first fight against Beerus anywhere else), but rather Beerus himself. Gohan's potential was always extraordinary. Gohan sensed Frieza wasn't serious and he played along. In fact, if you watch SSB only gets one hit on Gohan to Gohan's two on Goku. That would make even less sense than DBS's power scaling. Goku was NOT forced to use SSBKK, let alone even needing to use KKx20. Also, if you can, read my recent replies on the matter about the purpose of Gohan vs Goku's episode. All we saw was Gohan slightly staggering SSB which honestly is a farcry from simply going blow to blow with SSB Goku constantly. Gohan asked him to show his full power a.k.a SSB+kaioken. Based on what happend we can say that Mystic Gohan and SSJ2 Goku were "roughly" equals. Going by the logic of "gohan fought super saiyan blue," krillin is also ssb level, and thus is only slightly below gohan, It only makes sense that goku was going easy on everybody that he thought in super saiyan blue, because if he had just crushed them none of them would have wanted to enter the tournament because they know that they would not have stood a chance. u/MotorZookeepergame8. Nah, but seriously. Goku used the Kaio-ken on Gohan. © 2020 GAMESPOT, A RED VENTURES COMPANY. Would he? Archived [Question] Is Ultimate Gohan able to be stronger than SSB Goku or Vegeta? He just did the same thing again. He only turned to SSB because Gohan kept begging him to do so. F.x: Supressed Beerus godstomps Ultimate Gohan but is matched by 80% SSJG Goku. Gohan (After another year in the time chamber) VS SSB Goku Gohan spends a year in the hyperbolic time chamber in training AFTER he got all of his powers back in Dragon Ball Super. Do you know what difference there is between SSJ2 and SSB+Kaioken? Ultimate Gohan vs SSR Future Trunks Power Levels - Dragon Ball Super - Duration: 1:46. It is INFERIOR to Blue. Confirmed. WHY? SSG Goku fought controlled berserk Kale and ssj2 Caulifla at the same time and was going to win. Ultimate Gohan should be solid SSB level, and maybe even stronger than Vegeta was prior to his decision to push for some last moment serious training after feeling the final clash between Ultimate Gohan and SSBKK Goku. @erkan12: you really think Goku wasn't holding back even in SSB? Also, it should be evident that Android 17 is quite clearly not on Toppo's or any god's level. Then you have the SSJ transformations; which makes Goku (At SSJ3), 160,000 … Wow. Why is this important? Also, what about the fight against 17? I love how you ignore he was clearly being helped by Golden Frieza, you know, an actual god tier opponent, as well as serious Dyspo casually toying with both Golden Frieza and Gohan, who was then about to get stomped by Dyspo if it weren't for Frieza's death beam wall trap... Also, I love how you completely side stepped the Toppo point because you knew full well it puts another huge hole into everything you're saying. I'm guessing Piccolo is god tier too to you right? » Base Gogeta (fusions reborn) vs Ultimate Gohan. It's like you don't even watch this show. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. You just be straight up lying to keep your argument up lol. If they were relative before and Gohan grew during battle it would make sense that Gohan is Golden Frieza level, Golden Frieza=start of TOP SSB Goku. However Piccolo ends up just one shottign the guy with ki blasts. Yet Piccolo somehow beat ssj2 Gohan right before the tournament? Just because he's in a form doesn't mean he can't pull his punches. Prior to the Tournament of Power, Gohan failed to beat Super Saiyan Blue Goku's Kaio-ken technique. There is not enough space for "<" to describe it. Piccolo stated DBS Gohan until recently was weaker than Buu Saga Gohan lmao. If my first sentence was true, every Universe 7 warrior should be able to win against SSG Goku. And we also know that SSB is quit a bit above SSBlue. its the same reason goku didn't go SSj3 back against vegeta. I thought Gohan asked really nicely for Goku to go SSJB instead of forcing him into it and was realistically only a match for SSJ2 Goku IIRC, SSJG Goku should win this imo. So with all that said how does Mystic Gohan stack with SSB Goku in DBS? If gohan wasn't ssg level, goku wouldn't have needed to go kk ssb to end their fight. lol, if he was holding back so much, why'd he feel the need to Kaioken? I honestly feel this wouldn't be an issue if Toei didn't do all that universal shit with Beerus in the DBS version of Beerus vs Goku and in the BOG movie, because now whenever someone sees a character fight Goku they immediately think "no way this character is universal" even though Goku himself isn't universal and something akin to what happened during his fight with Beerus, never occurred again. @erkan12: Yes, I have, and what gives you the impression that Gohan has gotten any stronger since literally the 4 hours and 30 minutes that passed between him begging his dad to take him seriously in their sparring match right before the ToP... to the beginning of the ToP? This is hilarious. Thus, Gohan should be roughly equal but still inferior to SSB Goku. @erkan12: When are you going to stop ignoring and pretending like Gohan wasn't begging Goku to use all of his power because Goku wasn't taking him seriously and that Ultimate Gohan was getting completely stomped and coached by SS2 Goku? Dragon Ball Super English Dubbed Episode 90 Reaction SSB Saiyan Blue Kaioken Goku Tien vs Ultimate Mystic Gohan Piccolo Review. I have no clue. So I don't think Friezas boosts should be taken as fact. @sirfizzwhizz: I already said it was inconsistent twice in this thread... @jashro44: Nothing is wrong with Gohan being that strong, but Super has been too inconsistent for me. YOU, on the other hand, are some strange Gohan wanker and will wank or lowball anyone around him if it makes Gohan look good. I feel the idea of Goku having all the powers of ssj God has been inconsistent....IIRC Goku was being pinned by Tupper and Android 18 picked him up easily. And any time Beerus gets serious in their fights(example being when he fodderized MSSJB Vegeta), it stops being an actual fight. Ultimate Gohan (ToP) vs SSJ Rosé Goku Black - Page 2. Because apparently anyone who lets their opponent touch them despite the clearly superior opponent simply allowing the lesser opponent some breathing space for whatever that reason may be automatically puts the lesser opponent on equal terms to the superior opponent according to your logic, right? So i would say Goku SSJ3 back then was maybe 1/5th to 1/2 the power of mystic Gohan. @stricnyn3: You're indeed late. Goku only transformed because Gohan asked him to. ..Are you serious with this sentence? @stricnyn3: freiza didn't give toppo a near death experience. I know people are using that fight to state SSJ2 Goku is equal to Buu arc ultimate Gohan and that’s a fucking laugh. I guess he took that punch for purpose too in his SSJB form, just to keep him happy... Lol. As much as I like Gohan, Vegito is just on a completely different league, being a portara fusion. Someone needs to make a thread re-evaluating SSJG/SSJB's power. Not to mention she had just released a bunch of energy before Jiren one shotted her. The man is still under Buuhan significantly for crying out loud. If he said he would have killed Gohan had he not caught on, I'd be inclined to believe him considering Frieza's characters. What you said to defend Gohan and excuse why he powered up to his max power just to let himself get stomped, especially against his own dad was absolute nonsense and is completely out of character for Gohan. Lol. Why would Gohan beg Goku to use his full power? Question. Not only that, did you even watch the latest ToP episodes? Then you have Gohan needing Android 17 to even survive against Toppo's suppressed form, virtually having no effect on Toppo with his ultimate Kamehameha... all of whom Goku and Vegeta had already convincingly handled with their SSB forms alone plentiful times, with Golden Frieza giving Toppo a near death experience with his suppressed multi death beams.... Gohan had a convincing match up with the U6 Namekians, who even Piccolo helped beat, meaning they too aren't near god status. that fight seemed to imply base Goku was above him. Its hard to say with the way DBS is. no. Tell me, am I right in believing that you're the same type of person that believes Krillin is god tier too? You think a gohan who at his max mystic can be multi solar system could fight that? And I don't think the narrator was really including Kaio-ken in his statement, because when he says that line its before the scene of Goku using his kaio-ken is shown. Oh and your not remembering the episode correctly. So what was the point of having his fight start with him getting wrecked if he was just going to easily win? Roshi, did way better than someone of his power should of and got a whole episode dedicated to him that was actually good and a follow up episode that had a lot about him as well and even put up a fight against Frost (who stomped Piccolo before), 8. I guess in your mind, Goku just used SSJB KK to keep his son happy right? But the fact frieza felt like responding with his golden form to make it look convincing tells me gohan is reasonably close. If anything base Gohan was doing a bit better. But Gohan was holding back matching his father, and didn't go full power until goku went blue. It's absurd to truly think Gohan is anywhere near god status when he can't even sense God ki yet. I mean, he was never seen being legit hurt during any of those battles. We don't know if he put more effort into one shotting Kale. Goku could handle Gohan in SSJ2. @erkan12: Yeah, I'll wait until Gohan has a real fight to gauge his power. When the hell has Gohan ever did anything like that? You should know how Goku sandbags on literally all of his opponents, including his own son, which Gohan got on him about again... but evidently you don't know much about the DB lore to realize this case to be even arguing. Goku used Blue repeatedly up until he fought Jiren and belmod revealed that he was only using Blue’s true power for the first time in that fight. Hit gave Jiren some bother. There's many more evidence where this comes from, too concerning Goku's personality traits and fighting methods. SSB=50xSSG or more given its the "Super Saiyan version of Super Saiyan God". @Foremostproxy: He did not need it... did you even read what I wrote? unless you mean to say that Cabba is basicly equal to vegeta because vegeta went SSB and knocked him out? Yes he wasn't holding back. One second Goku can keep up with skinny buu in base, the next episode Roshi is keeping up with him...Yea he's been doing training in secret but does anyone seriously think Roshi is on par with buu? @jashro44: What feats? 17's beam were never causing any effect on Toppo whatsoever, and Toppo, and even U7 on the bleachers clearly stated as such (Android 18 and Piccolo specifically) that they were never hurting Toppo, but were used infinitely to stall the 5 minutes remaining. @corvin123: what about KK is that look like holding back to you?? Going by power scaling and math, SSJ4 is pretty dang powerful. So you put current gohan on SSB goku's level? Thus, Gohan should be roughly equal but still inferior to SSB Goku. Kind of but all it ended up being was Tein getting destroyed, and then Gohan and Goku fighting each other. Take the Kale fight for instance, Goku got owned as a super saiyan Blue, then proceeded to make a mockery of an even stronger Kale and caulifla at the same time in his god form. I do believe if they did get into a serious fight currently it wouldn't be a stomp in favor of frieza. @stricnyn3: You've problems with understanding what was really going on with Gohan and Goku. I think Goku holds back in all of his fights unless it's someone really powerful. That just means frieza would win which he would. Did I not just give you an example of what Goku did vs SS2 Majin Vegeta and the Cell Saga's Gohan vs Goku in the HBTC for like 20 times now? This new Mystic Gohan could hold his own against SSB Goku and Golden Frieza. Would he? Lol. Because DBS has had a bunch of unreliable inconsistency. That's the thing that you don't understand. I stick to the facts. Which prompts goku to use kk. Gohan is definately SSB tier, but he's not the level of a Full power SSB imo. Golden Frieza couldn't defeat Dyspo too, is that mean Frieza was also not a SSJB tier?". It is. @erkan12: "Goku just used SSJB KK to keep his son happy right?". Gohan leaves behind scuff marks on Goku's body after their final clash. What you are saying about plot holes, fails in powerscaling, etc. Showing just how powerful Buuhan was. Gohan cannot even sense god ki ffs. And forget that Gohan was matching with Pirina and Saonel in a 2 v 1, both of them are individually strong enough to fodderize Piccolo. Oh, and keep ignoring how Ultimate Gohan even with help has no answer to suppressed Toppo while literally every other actual god tier opponent can alone. In terms of character respect for U7 this arc I think his is how it goes, 1. Well, Ultimate Gohan is … Goku never used the Kaio-ken against Kale. 3 years ago. 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